Removal of Oil Varnish from a Violin

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by MANFIO - LUIS CLAUDIO on October 26, 2009 at 4:41am

In the case it`s a bench made insttrument the varnish must not be touched, otherwise the instrument will suffer a heavy devaluation.

In the case you have made the instrument (or just have varnished an instrument you have got in the white) ou can try paint remover.

www.manfio.com

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Permalink Reply by Marvin S. Hoekstra on October 26, 2009 at 11:47am

Thank you--it is an instrument I have made myself,

MANFIO - LUIS CLAUDIO said:

In the case it`s a bench made insttrument the varnish must not be touched, otherwise the instrument will suffer a heavy devaluation.

In the case you have made the instrument (or just have varnished an instrument you have got in the white) ou can try paint remover.

www.manfio.com

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Permalink Reply by MANFIO - LUIS CLAUDIO on October 26, 2009 at 12:33pm

Ok, so you can use paint remover, you can work with white paper towels to help you removing the varnish. If possible, work only on the wood surface don`t remove wood and keep the edges crisp. You will need more than one coat of paint remover to remove the varnish. You may use turpertine, alcohol or kerosene for final cleaning.

www.manfio.com

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Permalink Reply by Marvin S. Hoekstra on October 26, 2009 at 4:58pm

The idea of using paint remover sounds good. Is there any way to assure that the paint remover does not also remove the ground? Will it be necesary to reapply the ground, or can I start with the varnish once I have finished with the paint remover?

MANFIO - LUIS CLAUDIO said:

Ok, so you can use paint remover, you can work with white paper towels to help you removing the varnish. If possible, work only on the wood surface don`t remove wood and keep the edges crisp. You will need more than one coat of paint remover to remove the varnish. You may use turpertine, alcohol or kerosene for final cleaning.

www.manfio.com

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Permalink Reply by MANFIO - LUIS CLAUDIO on October 27, 2009 at 6:48am

I think it will remove th ground too, unless it has different nature from the varnish. One of the problems in varnish removing is that part of it will remain in the wood, so that the new varnish may appear stained,

Varnish restorers are able to remove varnish (and polishings) layer by layer, but it is quite a difficult work that requires lots of experience, proper materials and hundreds of working hours.

If you are a begginer, perhaps it would be the case of moving to your next instrument, trying to avoid the problems you had in this one.
www.manfio.com

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Permalink Reply by Marvin S. Hoekstra on October 28, 2009 at 8:51am

Yes I am a beginner. After looking at the violin, I think your last advice is the one I should follow. It looks reasonably good with some touch up I have done. I would be better off spending my time on the next violin, which is already started. Thank you.

MANFIO - LUIS CLAUDIO said:

I think it will remove th ground too, unless it has different nature from the varnish. One of the problems in varnish removing is that part of it will remain in the wood, so that the new varnish may appear stained,

Varnish restorers are able to remove varnish (and polishings) layer by layer, but it is quite a difficult work that requires lots of experience, proper materials and hundreds of working hours.

If you are a begginer, perhaps it would be the case of moving to your next instrument, trying to avoid the problems you had in this one.
www.manfio.com

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Permalink Reply by MANFIO - LUIS CLAUDIO on October 28, 2009 at 7:06pm

I prepared some tutorials about shaping the corners and carving a scroll step by step, if you google you will find them, they were made for begginers. They are on my website too, but just in Italian.

My finishing system is rather simple, I start with strong tea, perhaps 4% sodium nitrite followed by exposition to the strong sun, followed by some of my oil varnish (1550 Marciana Recipe, in Venice, two parts oil, one part mastic, one part colophony) diluted in turpentine, then my oil varnish in a paste with pumice burnished into the wood, then perhaps some propolis in alcohol, then two coats of Magister Doratura Rossa varnish with some madder and bitumen diluted in kerosene to brushing consistency. You can see the results on my website:

www.manfio.com

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Permalink Reply by Marvin S. Hoekstra on October 29, 2009 at 11:21am

I have viewed the photos and I do like the results you achieve. There is a lot less sunlight in Seattle than Sao Paolo, so I am questioning whether I can use UVB lamps for this step. Your procedure is quite clear except I am not sure how the burnishing is done and what happens to the pumice. Is is wiped off after this step is complete? Also is the propolis in alcohol allowed to dry on the instrument or rubbed of?

Thanks for mentioning the tutorials. I can read the Italian and am partway through the one on scroll carving. It has good photos and detail.

MANFIO - LUIS CLAUDIO said:

I prepared some tutorials about shaping the corners and carving a scroll step by step, if you google you will find them, they were made for begginers. They are on my website too, but just in Italian.

My finishing system is rather simple, I start with strong tea, perhaps 4% sodium nitrite followed by exposition to the strong sun, followed by some of my oil varnish (1550 Marciana Recipe, in Venice, two parts oil, one part mastic, one part colophony) diluted in turpentine, then my oil varnish in a paste with pumice burnished into the wood, then perhaps some propolis in alcohol, then two coats of Magister Doratura Rossa varnish with some madder and bitumen diluted in kerosene to brushing consistency. You can see the results on my website:

www.manfio.com

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Permalink Reply by MANFIO - LUIS CLAUDIO on October 30, 2009 at 2:52am

Thanks! It seems that ther is a consensus that Fluorescent Black Lights are the best lamps for making a UV box (if you google UV box violin you will find lots of stuff). I use an UV box during the night.

I mix the Marciana varnish with pumice (not too coarse neither too fine) and make a thin paste and then I rub it in the wood. Yes, I take off the excess with a rag embeded with some kerosene or cereal alcohol, or artist's white spirits, no residue of pumice must be left on the wood surface.

Yes, propolis with alcohol, and I left it dry. The idea is having the wood sealed for the subsequent heavily coloured oil varnish that must not penetrate the wood, and being very close to the wood it will be very transparent too.

If google "marciana varnish" you will find some discussions about that. If you follow my method with time you will get good results. Violin making has a long learning curve, you will not have quick results, so be patient. Ciao!

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Permalink Reply by Keith Dunn on October 31, 2009 at 6:36am

About 20 yrs ago I inherited my grandfathers fiddle. When he originally bought it .. he decided it needed to be refinnished. Having never worked on musical instruments before, he just did what he would have done for furniture .. and that was to use polyurethane to fininish the whole instrument. Well, .. it is now a very "quiet" - muted instrument . but a very nice old German made one. HIghly flamed back, ribs, neck & scroll and a very fine, straight grained top. What are the chances of removing the poly ?

Attachments:

• 1 My first fiddle.JPG, 37 KB

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Permalink Reply by MANFIO - LUIS CLAUDIO on October 31, 2009 at 2:38pm

Hi Keith! The problem of removing the current varnish is that iit will be difficult to you to find a good luthier willing to make this kind of job. You may try it yourself, but varnishing a violin is not an easy thing because you have lots of endgrain, and getting the right colour is not an easy thing too.
www.manfio.com

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Permalink Reply by Marvin S. Hoekstra on November 1, 2009 at 4:48pm

Looks like all my questions are answered. With touch up my violin is looking reasonably good. I am glad I did not remove the varnish.
Ciao. Grazie!

MANFIO - LUIS CLAUDIO said:

Thanks! It seems that ther is a consensus that Fluorescent Black Lights are the best lamps for making a UV box (if you google UV box violin you will find lots of stuff). I use an UV box during the night.

I mix the Marciana varnish with pumice (not too coarse neither too fine) and make a thin paste and then I rub it in the wood. Yes, I take off the excess with a rag embeded with some kerosene or cereal alcohol, or artist's white spirits, no residue of pumice must be left on the wood surface.

Yes, propolis with alcohol, and I left it dry. The idea is having the wood sealed for the subsequent heavily coloured oil varnish that must not penetrate the wood, and being very close to the wood it will be very transparent too.

If google "marciana varnish" you will find some discussions about that. If you follow my method with time you will get good results. Violin making has a long learning curve, you will not have quick results, so be patient. Ciao!

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